Thomas D. Gorman: And that was the subject of your presentation, which was a very memorable presentation. 2001 was of course also a very momentous year for China, it was the year that China entered the World Trade Organization, and that was a historic catalyst for all kinds of changes, including in the economics sphere, investment sphere and in terms of integration of China with the world economy.
Looking back to that period of time, we had ten Chinese companies on the Fortune Global 500 list. By contrast in 2009 we had 37. That's incredible growth, obviously, in a very short period of time.
And in that same time span -- 2001 to 2009 -- 50%, actually more than 50% growth in the number of publicly listed Chinese's companies. Whether listed abroad or in the domestic market, so also a lot of change there. Meanwhile, we've just been through the most turbulent period the world economy has seen in living memory.
Jim Collins: Yeah.
Thomas D. Gorman: So all of these things strike me as giving us a very opportune moment in which to consider the principles of greatness that you have written about, so eloquently, how they may apply to this phenomenal growth of the Chinese corporate universe, and also, in the context of the current turbulence that we're living through, which I know is the subject of the book you're working on now.
Jim Collins: It's sort of about the permanent turbulence I think we'll be in.
Thomas D. Gorman: Right. So I thought this would be a great place to revisit some of these subjects and I can't think of a better place to start, than the first sentence of "Good to Great" which is of course, "Good is the enemy of great" and I'd be interested in your thoughts about the universality of that. Do you think that applies as much to companies in China or any other country as it does to the (U.S. company) research set that lead you to that observation?
Jim Collins: Well, we were speaking a moment ago about the rise of the business group in China today, and how there are business leaders who want to build a great company.
And there's a big difference between having a good company that is successful or just being a successful person, or just making a lot of money, and building a great institution, a great company, something that in my mind, a really great company is all about, in the end is a company that delivers such exceptional results. And makes such a distinctive impact on the world it touches. Whether it's a small world or a big world, that if you took it away, it would leave an unfillable hole that couldn't be filled by any other institution. That you've built something that is truly distinctively special and exceptional in how well it performs.
And that you can't do by simply saying, good enough is, you have to say, no, in order to really be indispensable, to truly reach that point, where something would be lost if we went away.
That requires a dedication to building something far more than just successful, which is: a great company. |
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高德思：那也是你發(fā)言的主題，讓人難以忘懷,。當(dāng)然2001年對(duì)中國(guó)來說,，也是非常值得紀(jì)念的一年。中國(guó)加入了世貿(mào)組織,，這對(duì)各種變革來說都是歷史性的催化劑,，作用于經(jīng)濟(jì)、投資以及中國(guó)與世界經(jīng)濟(jì)大環(huán)境融合等各個(gè)方面,。
回首那一時(shí)期,，有10家中國(guó)企業(yè)名列《財(cái)富》世界500強(qiáng)排行榜,。形成鮮明對(duì)比的是，到2009年,，這個(gè)榜單上有了37家中國(guó)企業(yè),。在如此短的時(shí)間內(nèi)，實(shí)現(xiàn)這樣的增長(zhǎng)讓人感到難以置信,。
在相同的時(shí)間跨度里,，從2001年到2009年，中國(guó)的上市公司數(shù)量增加了50%還要多,，包括在國(guó)外和國(guó)內(nèi)上市的,，同樣產(chǎn)生了巨大的變化。與此同時(shí),，我們經(jīng)歷了當(dāng)代人記憶中世界經(jīng)濟(jì)最為混亂的時(shí)期,。
吉姆·柯林斯：是的。
高德思：這些變化都深深地觸動(dòng)了我們,，讓我們利用這個(gè)適宜的契機(jī),，去思考你寫到的“卓越”的基本原則，思考如何將這些原則應(yīng)用到中國(guó)快速成長(zhǎng)的商業(yè)環(huán)境中,，或是用這些原則來解釋當(dāng)前動(dòng)蕩的大環(huán)境,，而我知道，這也是你手頭正在創(chuàng)作的那本書的主題,。
吉姆·柯林斯：在我看來這種經(jīng)濟(jì)動(dòng)蕩會(huì)一直持續(xù)下去,。
高德思：對(duì)。所以我想,，現(xiàn)在我們可以重溫其中的一些主題,。我能想到的最好的開場(chǎng)白，莫過于《從優(yōu)秀到卓越》書中的第一句話：“優(yōu)秀是卓越的敵人,?！蔽液芟胫溃闶欠裾J(rèn)為這句話是放之四海而皆準(zhǔn)的,。通過觀察一組美國(guó)公司,，你得出了這些結(jié)論。你是否認(rèn)為這一原則也適用于中國(guó)或其他任何國(guó)家的企業(yè),？
吉姆·柯林斯：我們剛剛談到了當(dāng)今中國(guó)商業(yè)集團(tuán)的崛起,，談到許多商業(yè)領(lǐng)袖想要建立卓越的企業(yè)。
做一家成功的公司,、做一個(gè)成功的人,、或掙一大筆錢，與建立一家卓越的機(jī)構(gòu)、一家卓越的企業(yè)之間存在著很大的區(qū)別,。在我看來,，一家真正卓越的企業(yè)，歸根結(jié)底就是能夠產(chǎn)生優(yōu)異的業(yè)績(jī),，并且對(duì)其所接觸的領(lǐng)域會(huì)產(chǎn)生巨大的影響,。無論這個(gè)領(lǐng)域是小是大，一旦這家企業(yè)不在了,，它將留下一個(gè)無法填補(bǔ)的空洞,，其他任何機(jī)構(gòu)都無法填補(bǔ)。因?yàn)檫@家企業(yè)的表現(xiàn)超凡脫俗,，它建立起了真正與眾不同的,、特殊的價(jià)值。
為了實(shí)現(xiàn)“卓越”,，你不能說“我們已經(jīng)夠好了”,。你必須得說“還不夠”，如此才能讓你的企業(yè)變得不可或缺,，才能在你們離開時(shí),，讓大家覺得缺少了什么。
這需要企業(yè)家身全心投入進(jìn)去,，建立一家遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超越“成功”這個(gè)層次的企業(yè),，也就是我們所說的卓越的企業(yè)。 |
