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Good morning from Las Vegas. During day two of the Adobe Summit on Wednesday, JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon touched on tariffs, the economy, and geopolitics, and he also gave some insight into what he considers effective leadership.

“I have to confess, I’m not used to speaking in front of 12,000 people,” Dimon told the audience of marketers, practitioners, and executives.

During the fireside chat, Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen asked Dimon what helped him develop as a leader, to which he responded, “I think there are four quick things.”

His first piece of advice: “Assess everything, honestly, directly, forthrightly. A lot of companies don’t do that.” Companies that don’t follow those guidelines are not honest about their performance, and get complacent, he said. “Don’t try to use numbers to prove what you think,” he said. “Try to use numbers to understand what you are doing.”

Secondly, you need an effective leadership team. “A lot of people who run stuff, they’re like a hot mess,” Dimon said. Always late and not doing their job, he said. “They may be great people, just don’t let them run something because they’ll be a disaster,” he added.

Dimon’s third piece of advice is to have humility. “People know when you care about them,” he said. “They know if you’re real.” And people know when you’re not genuine, he added. You wouldn’t want to work with someone who blames everyone else if something goes wrong, and takes credit when things go right, Dimon explained. Or someone who “doesn’t treat everyone across the company with respect, whether it’s the person cleaning the bathrooms in the office or a CEO,” he said.

His fourth leadership tip: “You’ve gotta have a little bit of grit.” Especially when you’re managing things that are coming at you all day. “You have to say ‘a(chǎn)bsolutely not,’ or ‘a(chǎn)bsolutely, take the chance—go for it,’” he said.

Driving innovation

Dimon is at the helm of the nation’s largest bank, which manages $4 trillion in assets and moves over $10 trillion around the world every day. With the bank having about 300,000 employees, Narayen asked him what he thinks about innovation for a company of that scale.

Technology has driven change for mankind, Dimon said. It has influenced everything from agriculture, printing, steel, ceramics, the internet, and “I put AI in the same category,” he said.

Technological innovation should be brought to the table for leadership to discuss, Dimon said. Lori Beer, global chief information officer at JPMorgan Chase, “who runs an empire,” reports to Dimon and the president, he said. When they come to the table, Dimon asks questions like: “What are you doing? What are you building? How are you competing? How are you using new technology? How are you using Adobe?”

The bank has expanded into lifestyle businesses, like Chase Travel. “We have a travel agency to make your life better,” Dimon said. “And unlike some other companies out there in social media, we want to offer you what you want,” and not “just bombard you with ads,” he said.

And Dimon offered another piece of advice: “A business should always look at itself from the point of view of the consumer.”