????克里斯汀?麥茲伯格常說,，很多公司經(jīng)常忘了自己的客戶到底是誰。麥茲伯格的ReD咨詢公司就有這樣一個客戶,，花了1億美元弄了些東西送給酒吧,，結(jié)果被酒吧老板們?nèi)拥较渥永铮詈笥直蝗拥降叵率摇?/p>

????最后ReD公司勸說這個客戶砍掉這些成本,，結(jié)果這個客戶的銷售額反而提高了,，原因僅僅是讓它的營銷策略變得沒那么招人煩了。麥茲伯格認為，在對于企業(yè)真正重要的事以及真實世界正在發(fā)生的事之間橫亙著一道巨大的鴻溝,。因此麥茲伯格與ReD的另一位創(chuàng)始人米克爾?B?拉斯穆森把一家公司意識到這個鴻溝的瞬間稱為“夢醒時分”,，這也正是他們的新書的書名。

????麥茲伯格近日在ReD公司的紐約辦公室（這間辦公室以前曾屬于石油大亨洛克菲勒）接受了《財富》雜志（Fortune）的專訪,。他更多地談到了各大企業(yè)那些自欺欺人的謊言,，他童年時受共產(chǎn)主義熏陶的故事，以及他為什么更喜歡招聘人類學(xué)畢業(yè)生,、而不是經(jīng)濟學(xué)畢業(yè)生,。

????《財富》：你的書看起來像是一本講商業(yè)的書，但是你也拿小說家愛麗絲?門羅作例子,，這對于此類作品來說是頭一回,。這本書主要是寫給哪些人的？

????麥茲伯格：我們希望是寫給每個人的,，但是書里的核心觀點是要挑戰(zhàn)現(xiàn)在的商業(yè)模式,。我已經(jīng)進入企業(yè)界15年了，我發(fā)現(xiàn)他們把人類看成是能在兩件事中間做出選擇的動物——比如一個東西是4美元,，另一個東西是5美元,，然后他們就會無休止地分析這些數(shù)據(jù)。

????首先也是最重要的是,，企業(yè)喜歡把人們當(dāng)成理性動物,。如果看看過去100年的西方哲學(xué)，你會發(fā)現(xiàn)并不是這么回事,。它是對人類的一個錯誤描述,。

????你是學(xué)哲學(xué)的，而且畢業(yè)后起初是在哥本哈根當(dāng)記者,。你的商業(yè)見解是不是受到了個人經(jīng)歷的影響,？

????不僅僅是這樣。我是在丹麥北部的一個島上長大的,，那里離瑞典很近,，而且我的家庭相當(dāng)?shù)墓伯a(chǎn)主義。我曾經(jīng)參加過青年運動,，而且在波蘭,、俄羅斯、東德等地受過訓(xùn)練,，以成為革命的接班人,。我從六歲開始讀馬克思主義，到11歲就已經(jīng)拋棄了它,，因為它并不像是反映了真實的世界,。柏林墻倒塌的時候我就在柏林,，那是我人生最重要的時刻。這種解脫和自由感直到20年后我還感覺得到,，整個世界都煥然一新,。從這時起，我就對教條主義產(chǎn)生了抗體,，我意識到我以前學(xué)到的所有的東西都是錯的,，所以我習(xí)慣于懷疑所有別人說是真理的東西。

????那么當(dāng)你第一次進入像三星（Samsung）,、樂高（Lego）或阿迪達斯（Adidas）這樣的大企業(yè)工作時,，你有什么反應(yīng)？

????大企業(yè)的體制讓我感到很不舒服,，因為那里很多東西都不用面臨挑戰(zhàn),。我就連身體都覺得不舒服。但是這個問題吸引了我,。體制越差,，思想越僵化，我越感興趣,。

????Christian Madsbjerg likes to talk about how booze companies often forget who their customers really are. Madsbjerg's consulting firm, ReD, had one such client that was spending $100 million on the stuff it gave to bars, which bar owners eventually threw in boxes, which then made their way to the basement.

????After ReD convinced its client to eliminate those costs, sales increased, simply because the company's marketing was less annoying. There's a huge gap between what's important to a company, and what's going on in the real world, Madsbjerg says. Madsbjerg and his co-founder, Mikkel B. Rasmussen, refer to the instant a company realizes that what it's doing is at odds with what is going on in the real world as "the moment of clarity," which is the title of their new book.

????Madsbjerg sat down with Fortune for a chat in ReD's New York City offices (which used to be John D. Rockefeller's). He spoke more about the lies companies tell themselves, as well as his childhood immersion in communism, and why he favors hiring anthropology majors over economics majors.

????Fortune: Your book looks like a business book and sounds like a business book, but you also use the fiction writer Alice Munro as an example, which has to be a first in the genre. Who is this book for?

????Christian Madsbjerg: Everyone, we hope, but the core point -- it's meant for challenging the way that business is done. I've spent 15 years inside of companies, and they see people as [those] who can choose between two things -- one thing is $4, the other is $5 -- and they'll analyze the numbers endlessly.

????First and foremost, [companies] view people as rational beings. If you've studied a page of Western philosophy the last 100 years, you would know that's not the case. It's a bad description of what it means to be human.

????You studied philosophy and started your career as a journalist in Copenhagen. Could it be that you are bending business insight to your own experience?

????It's deeper than that. I was raised on an island in northern Denmark, closer to Sweden, really, and my family was very, very communist. I was part of the youth movement and trained in Poland, Russia, and East Germany to be the next generation that took over the revolution. I started reading Marx at six. By 11, I had shed it all. It didn't feel like how the world was. I was in Berlin when the wall came down. It was the biggest moment of my life. The relief, the feeling of freedom, it lasted 20 years. The whole world was new. From this comes my vaccination against dogma; learning that everything you've ever been taught was wrong, it gives you a skepticism toward anything people say is the truth.

????So, how do you react when you first enter these large corporations you work with, like Samsung or Lego or Adidas?

????I feel so uncomfortable in a corporate setting, where things are unchallenged. I feel physically uncomfortable. But I'm drawn to it. The worse the setting, the more stale the ideas, the better.